Trevor Noah LAT Episode Transcript

Trevor Noah: [00:00:00] Everybody has an element of not being themselves, depending on the world at the end. The people who don't generally what I like to call assholes [00:00:06][5.7]

Monte Barnard: [00:00:07] in this episode of Live Rich have fun, save the world. We're shaking things up a little bit. Recently, two of Expensify directors, Jody Wang and Puneet Laugh, sit down with Trevor Noah to talk about representation as part of our new video series. Long asked. Table talks or black talks? This conversation on representation is the first in the video series that aims to explore issues relating to diversity, equity and inclusion and how they affect us in our everyday lives. Our first guest is Trevor Noah, the South African comedian, award winning host of The Daily Show, writer, producer, political commentator and actor. Since taking over The Daily Show, Trevor Noah has been instrumental in unpacking topics around race in a conversational, entertaining and approachable way, and we couldn't be more excited to kick off that talks with him. The 25 minute video discussion can be found over at Expensify Gqom slash latte, but we wanted to bring you the entire conversation here exclusively on Live Rich. Have fun. Save the world. I'm going to kick it over to Joni, Puneet and Trevor to take it away. Sitting out, of course, a long ass table. [00:01:12][65.6]

Trevor Noah: [00:01:16] Couldn't get a table for three. [00:01:17][0.8]

Puneet Lath: [00:01:19] It's our long ass table. [00:01:19][0.9]

Trevor Noah: [00:01:22] I like it. [00:01:23][0.4]

Trevor Noah: [00:01:23] Room for more to join. [00:01:24][0.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:01:24] Exactly. That's exactly right. [00:01:26][1.1]

Trevor Noah: [00:01:26] You never know who's going to join. Yeah. Happens to me all the time. Yeah, 15 friends pop up. What do you like? Oh, yeah, I got the table. [00:01:33][6.5]

Joanie Wang: [00:01:33] Yeah. At our company in Portland, it's a old bank that we took over, and so we were completely renovating it and we told the architects we wanted a really long ass table like great cool and then come back and they have a rendering with like three separate tables pushed together like, no, we want a long ass one [00:01:48][15.2]

Trevor Noah: [00:01:49] specific about wanting a long. Exactly. [00:01:51][1.6]

Joanie Wang: [00:01:51] It had to be one connected one. And so basically, we had to ask them for three or four different renderings until they finally they're like, Here's your long ass table. I hope you're happy with this, are you? Yes, very much so nice. So we wanted to recreate that here [00:02:06][14.4]

Puneet Lath: [00:02:07] just to give you some context on the conversation. Joining this idea, we wanted to make diversity, equity, inclusion a thing that everyone owned at Expensify, not just certain people whose job it was. And this idea will create a speaker series. People can invite guests that they care about and they can enter any peace with them and will learn that way through like first person stories. And so what? We wanted to talk to you because we thought, you know, you have a super interesting life story. Thank you. So like, tell it with humor and levity and lightheartedness and so know, probably touch on some serious topics, but hopefully still find the casual conversation. [00:02:39][32.2]

Trevor Noah: [00:02:39] I love it. I love [00:02:40][0.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:02:40] it. You interview people for a living. I mean, any advice for us before? [00:02:43][2.8]

Trevor Noah: [00:02:44] No, no. I have no advice whatsoever. I think everyone is so different, so I might give you advice that's good for interviewing somebody else. And then you use it on me. I'm like, I was horrible. Why would you do this? So I've never interviewed myself, so my advice to you is just be you. And then let's see what happens. [00:02:58][14.1]

Puneet Lath: [00:02:59] Yeah, that's better than the advice my partner gave me. So I asked that advice. She said, Don't shoot yourself. [00:03:03][4.2]

[00:03:04] Oh yeah, that makes for an interesting interview. [00:03:07][3.0]

Monte Barnard: [00:03:08] No, forget [00:03:08][0.2]

Trevor Noah: [00:03:09] that interview also warms you up. That's cool, you know, because I think it does. I think it India's you two people. All right. I'll just be like, Oh yeah, I've shot them before, you know? [00:03:18][9.7]

Joanie Wang: [00:03:21] Yeah. So let's get started at Expensify. Our goal is basically to leverage, have fun and save the world. We think that is what makes a good life, and we're spending 40 to 50 hours at the workplace. Why not, right? Starting with live rich, we define that as basically a measure of what your daily average boring life looks like. So a rich life is a consistent, comfortable baseline. So I'm curious, what is your boring daily average day look like, Trevor? [00:03:46][25.8]

Trevor Noah: [00:03:47] Boring average day a day of contentment for me is waking up at the right time. What I mean by that is when my body wakes me up, not when I need to wake up just like a nice time. Yeah, you know, the day has already started, but it hasn't gone completely away from me, so it's still a morning. I don't normally eat early, so most of the time it would be like a swim is wonderful. If you're in the right place, you know on a lazy day begins, you know, maybe you go for a walk, maybe you go for a bike ride, come back, take a shower, then eats, and then I settle into things, you know, read a book, watch a TV show that I've been saving to binge and then catch up with a friend or two or three or 15, depending on my table size. Yeah, that's pretty much like my ideal nothing day. Nothing planned. Nothing can go wrong. This is just the day and I enjoy. [00:04:36][49.1]

Puneet Lath: [00:04:37] It's like during the week, [00:04:38][1.2]

Trevor Noah: [00:04:39] during the week is work. And I mean, this year has been abnormal work, so there's no normal schedule this year. So this week has been you wake up at work, go to sleep at work. I've converted my apartment in New York into a studio, so every little space is dedicated to my work. So wake up, start the day, get into the studio vibe, start writing the show conferencing with everyone on your little iPads and your laptops and everything, and then try and recreate the essence of what you're doing a building without being in the same space as people. Yeah. And then just try and live as authentically as possible in that space. And then we get to the point where we're going to tape the show and then tape the show and then that's pretty much it. And then you start editing, getting everything ready for putting the show on TV and then you do it again tomorrow. [00:05:25][46.3]

Puneet Lath: [00:05:26] One of the things I think is really cool about The Daily Show is like in so many different types of people in terms of talent and types of people that you put on the show. How do you go about finding these people? What's your hiring like at The Daily Show [00:05:37][11.2]

Trevor Noah: [00:05:38] for interviews or for the people who work at the show? [00:05:40][1.7]

Puneet Lath: [00:05:40] I guess. But yeah. [00:05:41][0.7]

Trevor Noah: [00:05:42] For interviews is really simple. I just go like, who's interesting? What do you want to know about people? Some people, it's because they make movies or music or anything we consume as people that keeps us entertained. Some people's, because they're doing cool things, maybe they've started an idea or a business or an invention. Some people are doing things in their world. Some people are thought leaders, some more actual leaders. So I'm always just trying to have interesting conversations with people that I either agree with or disagree with. And then, you know, let the conversation go from there. That's what the people in the building. I'm always trying to grow the show stars. In such a way, that's the show's mind is constantly being expanded. I don't ever want to be in a space where the show's thinking is too homogenous. I think we can work as a unit with many differing points of views and ideas, and it just just adds a little texture to everything that you're doing. Otherwise, you're just like one giant monolith that's moving along and like having a group of people where we're like minded in that we're trying to do the same thing, but we can think of a hundred different ways to do it. And that's really fun, because then you engage with people. You have a great conversation with them. You go, All right, let's try and make this project happen. And essentially, every episode of the show is a project. You know, it's like, what today's project and see the tomorrow's project. The gifts on the cast of that, you only have the time that you have. So some days, you know, pens down, that's it. And you're happy. And some of these pens on, you're like, Oh, I wish I had more time, but you don't. [00:07:03][81.6]

Puneet Lath: [00:07:04] So you said you don't want everyone to be like minded. The only way that happens is if they don't all come from the same place, right? One of the things that we do at Expensify is we don't care where you work before, we don't care where you went to college or if you went to college because we don't want to create these invisible barriers that push everyone to have college. Same place. There aren't any parallels with what you do. [00:07:26][21.5]

Trevor Noah: [00:07:27] Oh, yeah. I didn't go to college, so I can't like be like, you're going to college. I'm more like, You're going to tell me what it's like. Tell me what it's like. It's interesting that you say that because we've never operated in that way. So I'm always trying to find people who have those differing life experiences. I'm always trying to figure out what the barriers to entry are as well. Because, you know, when I first took over the reins of The Daily Show, I realized that there were certain invisible barriers that are holding people back. So you got the doors open. But then a lot of people can't come in, you know? I remember we had a guest on our show once who talked about what it was like to live life with a disability, and she was saying she grew up in an age in America before they were ramps, going up stairs and before there were you elevators that would help you in certain places. And she says no one noticed she just gets the stairs in a wheelchair and then you just hope someone helps you. And so if you live in a world where you don't need the rooms, you don't realize how many people can't come in because there are no rooms. And so I think we can apply that on a societal level as well in any competition as you go, like get the doors open, how many people are blocked in just getting to the door because of the way the world is? And if you can figure out how to create those ramps, quote unquote, you start to create a lot more of a dynamic situation, I think. [00:08:40][72.9]

Joanie Wang: [00:08:40] Yeah. And a lot of those times the ramps help everyone, right, not just the people they're specifically serving. Yeah. So it just opens the door for anyone to come in. Yes, definitely. Yeah. So when you're evaluating candidates, how much do you balance what their past experience looks like versus this kind of new opportunity of their potential? How much do you consider that in terms of how you evaluate them? [00:09:01][20.6]

Trevor Noah: [00:09:02] Well, I think for me, in looking at somebody who's joining a team, I always think of what are you capable of and what do we need you to be capable of? So there are many things that can be taught. It's something that I've learned in everything I've done. I've learned everything that I've done. I didn't just know it's so important to me. Yeah, there are some things, however, that cannot necessarily be taught, you know, so like being funny, I can teach it to you, but don't take a very long time. Let's take a very long time for a final finding that it would take a long time. But then there are menial things anyone can learn how to do that can learn about the United States government. I can learn about laws, I can learn about structure. You can learn certain things, you can learn things in production, you know, you can learn how to make a television show. But there are aspects of the creative that you cannot necessarily learn. And so in that space, I'm looking for people who don't necessarily have the experience within the industry but have the experience of life, because that's what that's what I'm looking for. What are your experiences in life? Because that's what will, I think in some ways enrich what the show is trying to do. You bring that experience with you and I bring my experience with me and then we smash those experiences together, and we hopefully create a new experience for the audience [00:10:14][72.0]

Puneet Lath: [00:10:15] is part of that going out and looking for people in other countries around the world? Is it a global thing or is it more from a U.S. prison? [00:10:22][6.7]

Trevor Noah: [00:10:22] I think it's more from a US perspective in terms of local, but not in terms of thinking so. The reason I say it doesn't really limits us is because I'm a South African who's hosting the show. We have another South African. We have two Ugandans. We have Nigerian. We have British people. We have so you know what I mean? So it's like actually like there I find the people who gravitate towards this little nucleus we've created are people who go, Hey, I'm an immigrant and I've popped in here, Hey, I'm coming from this country ham, you know? And so we don't necessarily have to reach out and find in that way. We've been lucky in that the ethos of the show has created a welcome sign for people from all walks of life and all different countries. So yeah, because the show is based in the US, though, I'm always cognizant of that. And so I tell people all the time as I go, like, this is a show based in America, so it will definitely be biased to what's happening in America. And I'm not afraid of that because that's what I'm trying to do. Not dissimilar to a company. Expensify might be like, Well, we're predominantly in America and we're looking to grow at some point, but we've got to focus on what's happening here right now. So that's essentially what I'm doing to keep the show as authentic to what it means to be as possible. [00:11:36][74.5]

Puneet Lath: [00:11:37] You know, you mentioned when you jam these ideas together, you end up with something interesting. And I think people generally kind of understand the idea that you have diversity. You can create something that's interesting, but it's also just kind of fun at work. And I think that's necessarily realize, like I remember, we have this colleague from New Zealand and I was talking to her about flying internationally and she's like, Oh yeah, I was back in cattle class and I was like, That's a big deal economy over there. All right. We just create these moments that just make work also. Yeah, think it does. [00:12:09][31.5]

Trevor Noah: [00:12:10] The thing that people take for granted with diversity is it is harder work, and sometimes I think people ignore that. And the reason I don't like ignoring it is because then when people experience it as being hard, they then have an inclination to run away. So they go like, Girl, what do we do? Run away is like, no, it is harder, but the upsides are so much greater, [00:12:32][22.2]

Joanie Wang: [00:12:33] so I'm kind of curious when we've been talking about diversity, inclusion, how do we make Expensify a more inclusive place regardless of whatever our intention is? The reality is that we can't measure how successful we are unless we ask each individual person. Do you feel like you belong? Do you feel like you can come here with being the authentic self? You know, not having to feel like you have to hide certain parts of yourself? And so at The Daily Show, how do you guys measure success in terms of, of course, like great everyone looks kind of different. Maybe they come from different countries. But outside of that, how do you measure success in creating a more diverse and inclusive workspace? [00:13:05][32.6]

Trevor Noah: [00:13:06] Well, the hardest thing to understand is that you are still part of a society, so you've got your circles that expand out. You know, let's say you've got your department and then you've got your floor and then maybe you've got the company as a whole and then you've got the city that it's in the country, that it's in the world that it's in. So a lot of times people will go, Oh, I want to be completely myself, I'm going to be the one to tell you there's no such thing. You know, everybody has an element of not being themselves, depending on the world at the end. The people who don't generally or what I like to call assholes, the people who don't move or change at all, depending on their circumstances. Right. But I think a general person who has a certain level of empathy will shift and accommodate others. If you're driving in the traffic and cause trying to you, you go like, OK, I'm going to slow down. That is generally what we're trying to do in society. That's how we move together as a herd. And so what's difficult to figure out is which aspects we are tempering to move together as a society or in the company and which aspects we're tempering because of a regressive point of view that society held. So are you being forced as a woman to be like one of the boys club because that's what corporate culture has been for so long? Or are you being forced to just be like, Oh, not an asshole? That's a different thing, depending on who you are. A good example is like, I remember one time chatting to a friend. He's Malaysian, right? And so he's from Australia and he's Chinese from Malaysia. And he said we were talking about food in the office and people were like, Can you bring your own food? Can you not bring in food? He was like, Oh man, I wonder if I can bring some fruit from Singapore. And so then I was like, Which foods are you going to bring in? And I knew what he was doing because of the specific foods that you can buy in Singapore. Yes. Durian. Right. And so durian is the most polarizing thing you can eat even in Singapore or anywhere in Malaysia. Like even then, when somebody would be like, No, no. Yes. So what's what's interesting is we were lucky because he was just teasing me, but we're laughing. We're like, How could you bring durian? Well, if you weren't allowed to bring it, would you say that's not cool and it's not inclusive and it's not diverse? But then you can like, but even in the place where it's from, they're like, No, durian is nothing. And so that's that's why I think you have to work and understanding is that there are things you have to do in a society to help you move with the rest of society. All right. So we were close one reason we wear clothes because we all agreed we're going to do clothes. And then in Miami, people are like, No, we're not going to. And that's their society. You get what I'm saying. Yeah, that's the hardest thing to try and figure out is how do you create an environment where everybody can be themselves in the most cohesive way, where they don't have to not be a woman, you know, not be a person of color, not be a black person, not be their culture even. But then also go like, Hey, these are the things that you should do in a company that want to come to your company and be like, Well, being myself means I only work one hour a day and you're like, all fired. Oh, come on, what am I going to do? You know you don't have any slack inclusivity. And so that's, I think, the ultimate thing that you have to weigh. [00:16:17][191.0]

Puneet Lath: [00:16:18] It's kind of like it's about creating a welcoming environment. Yes. Is there anything in your career anyone has done to make you feel particularly welcome? [00:16:25][7.0]

Trevor Noah: [00:16:26] Oh, yeah, all the time. But I'm also good at adapting, you know, which is which is a gift and a curse. What's interesting is I find people are more welcoming of you when you are completely different as opposed to when you are adjacent to who they are if you come into a place from a different country. People are like, how a different country? Oh, I would, you know what I mean? And they're very accommodating of that. But if you come into a place where you're from the same city but you just from a slightly different block, all of a sudden people are, you should be like this. You should know this. You shouldn't. You don't. I mean, they're less welcoming because they feel like you should be closer to them as opposed to being welcomed because they like to welcome you from here. Nobody's really from anywhere in that way, right? Yeah. So yes, people have made me feel welcome in trying to understand me, and that's probably the biggest thing. Conversations? Yeah, it's like asking, What do you eat back home? What is it like? What's this? What's that? How family dynamics? How do you work? What chefs that begin? Is an understanding of how people are, because I think oftentimes the issue that we face in society is not only the fact that people are not tolerant of others, but it's rather the fact that people don't realize that there are others to even be tolerant of. And so if you live in a world where you think your mode is the default mode, it is the normal mode, you're going to be aggrieved by things that are not like that. Once you understand that Curti is not the only type of keyboard layout possible, you start to go like, Oh, I use quartzite. But there's another way to type, and I think it's weird, but it works just as well for somebody else. And I think having that mindset can help you a lot in welcoming others. It's just going like, Oh, you don't do it the same or think the same all the same. There is no one way to do anything or no one way to be as a person. [00:18:10][104.7]

Puneet Lath: [00:18:12] I was thinking about also go on air talent that you have on your show. Super diverse. All kinds of people that are on your show. Do you ever worry about how people like, whether the audience is ready or what their reaction is like? [00:18:23][11.1]

Trevor Noah: [00:18:23] Oh, no, not at all. No, no. I'm looking for interesting people. Here's what I'm always looking for people who can tell a story that I can't tell in the way that they can. And so it doesn't matter who it is on my show, I'm going like, I can handle certain stories because I'm me. I can also tell a story. I can cover a news story that affects women, which I always think affects everyone in society. But you got like, the story affects women most directly. And so society will be affected by that. But I go like, Man, I want be fun to have a woman's perspective on this. We wanted a woman to even have a discussion with about this. [00:18:53][30.5]

Joanie Wang: [00:18:54] Is there any guest you've ever had that still sticks with you, like an interview you've done or anything like that? [00:18:58][4.3]

Trevor Noah: [00:18:59] All of them for different reasons. Really, really. I've had I mean, most recently, I had an interview with someone the pair, a 98 year old woman who survived the concentration camps in Nazi Germany. And here she was, Dutchwoman Jewish woman who worked as a resistance fighter and helped people when she was 17 years old and then got captured by the Nazis and then was forced to make like gas masks and then left the screws off the gas masks to try and sabotage them. And I mean, risking her life and then went on to live a full life after that. And it was fascinating human beings. Ninety eight years old. You know, I'm saying in the imprint she left on me as a person because everything in her life was an extreme challenge that I can't even imagine having those conversations, having those people, whether it's the guests or the people I choose to have on the show with me is a conscious decision because in terms of the people who are on the show with me, I don't just go, is the audience ready? I sometimes go like, Man, I'm sure there's so many people who are waiting watching TV and they're just like, Oh man, I wish someone would tell a joke about my world or my thing or my food, or my culture or my life or who I am. I know I appreciate that. I remember the first time I saw South African in the movie was, I think it was Lethal Weapon and they were racist and they were like stealing diamonds. But I was still happy. You know, I remember like, you know, because Danny Glover and it was Mel Gibson and that was like bloody diamonds. And I was like, Yeah. South Africa. Those small things make a difference. And so I know what that's like. You know, I remember watching coming to America, and I was like, Yeah, I don't know which country to defend, but I feel like they're from Africa. This is cool. And so I think that's cool to have as well, you know, as an outward facing expression of the fact that you are welcoming of everybody. [00:20:45][105.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:20:46] I mean, I've experienced that when I was growing up, there were never any Indian-Americans on TV like, Oh yeah, you had Bollywood, but in American TV there right now, there's tons of or at least more of them. Yes, it's awesome. I feel like [00:20:56][10.5]

Joanie Wang: [00:20:57] Lucy Liu maybe was the first one that I recognized in watching Charlie's Angels. Oh, that's cool. What about us right now? Right? It's like so different than anything else you see on TV. Yeah. Switching gears a little bit. I remember in a past interview you've mentioned comedies, a lot of trial and error, right? But of course, we live in this environment that we live in today with, like things like cancel culture and all that fun stuff. And so I'm kind of curious, how do you create a environment at The Daily Show that helps give people the grace to make mistakes and maybe go take that extra step and let them fail and learn? [00:21:28][31.4]

Trevor Noah: [00:21:29] Well, the first thing I do is not subscribe to a lot of the propaganda around what's actually happening. A lot of people will terrify you with phrases like cancel culture. Cancel culture is run amok. You can't say anything. These are always people who are saying the same, right? They're saying it. And then you can say anything, but you're saying it. Yeah, but you can't say it. But just saying it, I understand what people are experiencing and I understand why. It's great to have that attitude in the media. But really, I break it down into three core things that are happening when people term cancel culture, I think, is too broad. We have criticism, we have accountability, and then we have an actual roasting. Those are the three things that are happening to people. People are being criticized for something they've said or something that they've done. This is as old as time right before we have Twitter. People should write letters to like broadcast networks, you know, and then they would complain. I did not like them. Johnny Carson had a tiger on his show. All right, and then they would send the letter in. That was Twitter. And it's just like we didn't have a platform that would amplify that feeling and connect with others who may feel the same or not. But criticism always existed. You know, the same thing goes for accountability. We live in a world where now there are people who go like, now I'm Harvey Weinstein was not, you know, he was indicted. Convicted. All right. That's not canceling. If a person goes to court, that's not canceling. Let's not get these things mixed up. Yeah. And then there's roasting. Sometimes you just get roasted. You know, sometimes you same the thing and people are just going to mock you for what you said. It's the same as like baseball pitchers. You know, when people go in and throw the first pitch at a baseball game and then they get roasted afterwards and getting canceled. They're just like, Wow, you threw the ball in the wrong direction. You thought the crowd that's roasting and that's what happens online because we live in an online culture. It's hard to figure out what each one is. Yeah. So you can't tell from the tone. I could be roasting you and then you could jump in and be like, Yeah, travelers hold him accountable. Whoa. I don't even think that was that serious. Yeah. You know, oh, someone on the line sometimes for mixing up there and there, you know what I mean? Don't just be like Matt, and then someone will be like, You're like, Oh, no, I'm not. That maybe is part of the issue. We live in a in a world where we are affected by a social media where we are unable to completely and accurately ascertain people's tone in many ways. Think of Twitter the same way, like a car, horns, car horns don't have degrees. You know, I wish there was like a normal setting where you could be like, Well, I just want a suspension for this person because they're not crashing my car and then a hard one for that one because it's going to be an accident if we live in a culture and a society where there is no measure of tone. We're in a dangerous place, which is where we are right now. If I meet you on the sidewalk and you're on your phone and you're blocking my path, I can say in my way, Excuse me, can I get by? And you know, I'm not fighting with you. You get I'm saying, I can say, watch out and you know that I'm trying to protect you online. We don't have tone. So online is just like making out a word, you know, watch out. And that's how every interaction is perceived by people because we don't know each other. Communication requires context. And so how do I create very long winded way to answer your question? But how do I create an environment where there is grace? I try and create context for everything that we're doing. I try and create it in the building with my team. I go like, Hey, man, let's try and create a safe space of context for knowing each other. I'm not trying to hurt you. You're not trying to hurt me. You have an opinion, you have an idea. Let's share them and let's play with them. And as a show, we're doing the same thing as we grow with our audience. They go, OK, we have context for who Trevor is. He doesn't want to kill all the panda bears, even though he said that in a joke. It's a joke. Yeah. And with context, the audience slowly understands that. And so that's how I try and create that in my world. [00:25:20][230.7]

Puneet Lath: [00:25:21] Yeah, we have this philosophy and expense by where our goal is that everyone that works there works there for the rest of their lives. That's the environment we're trying to create. And our CEO always says that the biggest risk of the company is that we forget each other as humans and we just start to hate each other over time. And that's one of the scary things about this pandemic is you're not in front of each other in person, you know, bumping elbows and developing some right context. And so it's scary. Like, I get mad sometimes at people. You know you're talking on chat room. Yeah, because you have [00:25:48][27.7]

Trevor Noah: [00:25:49] it's the subtle body language that we lack. That's what we've lost. And that's what social media has robbed us of. And that's what we lost over the last year of the pandemic. Subtle movements in our bodies that tell the other person they're safe. That's what human beings have done for as long as we've existed. We don't have that anymore. So when I send you an email and I'm just like, Hey, regarding that issue, I mean, I was just like, Oh, is he fighting with me? I'm like, Oh, that was, you know, if I responded, like, sounds good. He's like, What sounds good or doesn't sound good sarcastically? Or is he unhappy? And we've exactly [00:26:21][31.9]

Joanie Wang: [00:26:23] three exclamation points just in case, right? Thanks. [00:26:25][2.1]

Puneet Lath: [00:26:27] OK. So we talked about leverage a little bit right? And leverage is this idea of comfortable baseline day to day. So the second of our life forces have fun and have fun is not like Netflix and Chill have. We're talking about like, you know, bucket list moments, memories creating fun, you know, lifelong dreams being right and only do every now and then. I would imagine being the host of your own show. It's got to have some perks and even lifelong dreams you've had fulfilled as a result of The Daily Show to know. [00:26:54][27.5]

Trevor Noah: [00:26:55] I'm really lucky that all of my lifelong dreams, I guess, weren't fulfilled as a result of The Daily Show. In fact, I don't even know that I've had lifelong dreams in that way. You know, my only lifelong dream as a little kid was to own a super car. One day I was like my dream. I was like, Oh yeah. But I was lucky that when I was in South Africa, I had the opportunity to buy my supercars. This is in here I am. I've done it, you know, and then after a while, I was just like, This is ridiculous, what am I doing? But then beyond that, I've come to find my bucket. It involves experiences with people who mean the most to me. That's all I'm looking for. One of my best experiences in life was going whitewater river rafting in Costa Rica with a group of friends. Yeah, I mean, you want to learn your friends go on to a river with them for the first time with half of them can't swim and you're in control of their lives. They'll let you know how they feel about you. That's an experience I'll never forget. You know, you learn about each other during the pandemic. New York was shut down and then at some point, you know, people could leave their apartments. And now here we were riding bicycles twenty six miles around like Brooklyn and going up through Harlem and coming down through the Bronx. And we'd never done that before. And there was such a fun experience different, which explores different ways to explore each other as human beings. It wasn't about getting somewhere, it was about going somewhere. And so those are things that meant they've stuck with me a thousand times over. There's no celebrity encounter or fancy thing that can eclipse moments that I've gotten to share with the people in my life because they come with them a story and a very touch that nobody else will. And so if I've been through life with you and then get to see a new side of you because of something we're doing, that to me is the greatest bucket list experience of all. [00:28:41][105.7]

Joanie Wang: [00:28:42] And I know you were a really famous outside of the U.S. before you got to The Daily Show too, right? And I'm curious, you've listed a couple of really fun experiences you've had. Was there any one of them where after you had it, you were like, Wow, I made it. [00:28:53][11.4]

Trevor Noah: [00:28:54] Oh, that's an interesting one. I don't know if I ever think of it that way. I think fame comes with its upsides and downsides. So I never think of it as like I made it. I'll tell you one experience I had that was pretty wild. I was in South Africa. It was Nelson Mandela's centenary, you know, obviously passed away, but it was one hundred years of Nelson Mandela and everyone to come together to put on this giant concert. You know, artists from all over the world, from Burna Boy, Ed Sheeran to, you know, Cassper Nyovest, everybody was there. And so I was hosting the event, but I'm in the crowd. No one really gets to see. Everything's moving so quickly. And so I'm in the crowd for the Beyoncé Jay-Z performance because I mean, you know, I want to watch the show as well, you know, so I'm in the crowd. And at the end of the show, there's a moment with Jay-Z that comes out and then he's on like a platform that comes out of the ground and he's just like rising up as Jay-Z should, I guess, you know, he's coming up out of the ground and everyone is just watching this moment and performing the performative performs. And then he was done his verse and that goes back to Beyonce. And then he pointed at me and he was like, that the people around me turn like, Who the hell was he? And I didn't greet him. Like, I was like, Yeah, I see you again. And then people turn and they were like, Wow. And that was maybe a moment was like, Yeah, that was weird. It was a very weird moment. I was like, Oh, yeah, that's not a normal life. I was like, OK, yeah, maybe I have made it to that point. [00:30:16][82.6]

Puneet Lath: [00:30:17] Yeah. I mean, those are the memories. It's funny when you talk about the memories with your friends where you've gone together on a trip or something, and something happens because you have these shared experiences. We do a similar thing at Expensify, where we literally take the whole company abroad for a month now, every year. Stick everyone together, of course, to get comfortable each other and you just see people in a different light. Yes, I definitely learned that and decided, [00:30:39][21.8]

Trevor Noah: [00:30:40] Yeah, right, probably discover a serial killer or two [00:30:42][2.1]

Joanie Wang: [00:30:43] you discover who really needs a lot of people taking care of them. [00:30:46][2.9]

Trevor Noah: [00:30:46] Oh, nice. What's the craziest thing you guys have done? Like, what do they take you out to do? [00:30:50][3.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:30:51] So we actually just work from a different country every year for a [00:30:54][3.0]

Trevor Noah: [00:30:54] new series, and I need to join your company. [00:30:57][2.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:30:58] I started, there were 10 people, so it's was a lot easier. Just 10 people. We we'd pick up. We'd go to like Thailand and Milan. Then we'd figure it out. OK, now there's one hundred and fifty people the company people can bring their families is right, right? Right. Organize them in a fair. But yeah, I mean, it's just a way to kind of force people into situations that you can't imagine. I'm loving that. I remember my first time we went on this trip, we were in Thailand, and the co-founder of the company was like, Oh, there's this beach. We were staying in some on some beach and it's like, this other beach is even better. You just have to hike over this cliff. So we hike over the cliff with them. And then as soon as we get to the other side, the site went down like our website went down. So he's like, I got to go by. None of us knew how to get home, so we literally just landed on this beach until five a.m. until the tide went out and we could [00:31:41][43.8]

Trevor Noah: [00:31:42] walk and she could walk back [00:31:43][1.1]

Puneet Lath: [00:31:43] around. Yeah, it's like you learn something about you. [00:31:46][3.0]

Trevor Noah: [00:31:46] Yes, you do. Yes, you [00:31:47][1.3]

Joanie Wang: [00:31:47] do. I think something that stands out for me was we're usually there three or four weeks and there's one night we call Fancy Night, because when I started, we were probably 30 ish people. But back then we didn't have all the nice things. That year was my second year at Expensify. We realized we could rent out in Cambodia, an entire temple to have like, Wow. Yeah. And I remember coming in here and honestly, it kind of looked like we were arriving at a wedding or something because there is these beautiful candles everywhere. There's like rose petals everywhere. And then we just walk in and you know, you have a perfect view of one of the temples in Angkor Wat and everything's lit up. We have Cambodian dancers doing a performance for us. And I remember thinking, Where the hell am I? What am I doing at the. [00:32:26][38.5]

Trevor Noah: [00:32:28] That sounds amazing. [00:32:28][0.4]

Puneet Lath: [00:32:29] So being from South Africa, being in America, do you feel like a weight of representation or is it just pure pride that you feel? [00:32:37][7.7]

Trevor Noah: [00:32:38] I definitely felt the weight when I first started on the show specifically because when I left South Africa, many South Africans said, don't embarrass us. So that generally made me feel like I shouldn't embarrass my people. Since then, no, it hasn't been a way to put more of a pride, you know, more of an opportunity to represent. I have multiple badges that I'm wearing when I'm doing the show, and so I'm consciously or unconsciously thinking of these things. I'm going to go subconsciously going, What am I doing? Who am I doing it for? Or who is looking at me to do it for them, even though I may not be thinking of it in that way? And so the weight has thankfully lessened over time, and it's lifted slowly, but the burden has gotten lighter. But yeah, initially you have that thought because you're going to off going to do it for all of them. People would say, if you fail, don't come home. I was like, Wow, OK, all right. That's like my mom. [00:33:30][51.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:33:31] Yes. Like growing up, the worst thing you could do is embarrass my parents. Don't be stupid in public. [00:33:38][7.6]

Joanie Wang: [00:33:39] Talking about representation here, obviously, there's been a huge push in Hollywood lately, especially with successes like Black Panther, right? Right Wing Empire. Crazy Rich Asians, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think of this move specifically focused on representation? Is Hollywood really changing its tune, or are they kind of like, Oh, look, another revenue stream? Let's go for it. [00:33:59][19.2]

Trevor Noah: [00:33:59] I think it can be both. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's exactly what we want people to realize is you want Hollywood to go, Oh, we have to change and wow, this change could make us money because that's exactly what the thing can be. A lot of the time things and ideas are sold in America as a zero sum game. Well, we have to get some diversity going. And that could lead to increased presence. Well, fantastic. Everyone is winning on this. We don't need to live in a world where it's an either or. You know, so yes, Hollywood can make TV shows and films that are more representative and in that they can gain more revenue. You know, people can grow up watching themselves in different shapes, forms or ideas on screen, and that can just lead to a world where people feel like they have moved across. But even the opportunity to grow up as a kid, seeing yourself as a lawyer and you're like, Oh, I want to be a lawyer, it can happen to you. And I think that's a wonderful thing for myself. I look at that change in a really positive way. You know, I hope it keeps on expanding beyond just the surface, you know, because you have what's on camera and then you have what's happening behind the camera. And that's a lot harder to change because what you're trying to do is encourage new growth within those ranks. Yeah, a lot of times when people have these conversations, they think what you mean is like, replace them, get rid of. But I think of it as growth. You know, I genuinely think of it as growth. You're not getting rid of people. You're finding ways to grow a new pool of talent that previously hasn't been given access to any of these industries. [00:35:27][88.4]

Joanie Wang: [00:35:28] Yeah. Maybe representation is just the first part. Like phase one? Oh yeah. Once you get enough different types of stories out there and it's like, OK, let's dig another layer deeper, right? Like, let's tell it from very specific, you know, stories that have never been told. Get a little bit deeper into what different experiences look like, depending on where we're coming from. [00:35:45][17.4]

Trevor Noah: [00:35:46] Right. And at some points, in an ideal world, it gets to a point where you don't even notice it. It gets to a point. I'll tell you, not little kids, when they're watching Black Panther, they're not going like, Wow, this is a lot of black people really just watching Black Panther and think of it the same way when I was a little kid watching Superman movies, I was like, Wow, a lot of white people in this movie. I was just like, This is Superman. And that's what you come to understand is the younger generations grow up in a world where you creating an idea of the world for them, and that gives us a wonderful opportunity to create a generation that's better than we are. We don't feel like, Oh, they're being attacked by change. Change is terrifying. I don't care who you are and I don't care what anybody says. Change is terrifying. But changing is necessary if societies want to grow and become better. And so, you know, when you're in it, it seems like the scariest thing you're ever going to do. Once you've gone through it, you realize that it's not that bad. [00:36:36][50.6]

Puneet Lath: [00:36:37] Yeah, like Black Panther showed that it's not like only black people want to watch black and you know everybody wants to watch. Yeah, yeah. I read somewhere that you said before that society doesn't need everyone to move forward in order to move forward that as long as you have people at the forefront. They'll kind of drag society along. You talk about that a little bit. [00:36:55][18.0]

Trevor Noah: [00:36:56] So what I meant by that is sometimes I feel like in society, we lie to ourselves what we've been told, the lie that we need everybody to agree on something in order for it to be done. You know, we need everyone to agree on this thing. We need everyone to agree that women should have the right to vote. Then women can vote. We need everyone to agree that black people should be free, then black people no less and don't. And that's not how societies have evolved. That's not how people have grown over time. The best way I can put it is, think of it this way, inventors. You don't need everyone to be trying to invent the light bulb. You know, once the light bulb was invented, at some point, people are going to be like, Oh, these candles suck. I want to use a light bulb. The same thing goes for electric cars. You know, Elon Musk is doing his thing alone almost like electric, a stupid electric is not feasible electric. Like it's like, OK, fine, he's like, I'm just going to keep on doing it. He didn't say the whole car industry needs to do it with him. He just did it. And now, because of his success, it's not the cleanest. It's like, Oh, we can't let him go a lot. So we're all going to start doing it. And now the proliferation of electric cars is just going to be normal. And I think it's the same for society. Yeah. [00:38:03][67.2]

Puneet Lath: [00:38:04] From reading your book, I feel like your mom was one of those people that was at the forefront, not really conforming to it. Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. Did that create ruffles in your life, or was it exciting to be a part of eyes is scary because you've mentioned change as far as [00:38:18][14.7]

Trevor Noah: [00:38:19] I think it was interesting, and it came with its pros and cons for me as a child. The pros are that you get to witness an adult and a parent who is constantly pushing the boundaries, constantly trying new things, constantly living against the idea of what the world wants them to be. That's fantastic to see. It also comes with the downsides, which is like you may not feel as secure. You may you may feel like life is tumultuous. You may be exposed to more conflict than usual because, you know, if you're with a mom who's not going to succumb to what society wants a woman to be or a black woman to be, you're going to experience or witness a lot more tension and conflict in life. And that's terrifying. When you're a child and that sticks with you, you know, until you become an adult and you work through those issues. But on the whole, though, she was definitely that kind of person. My mom doesn't live in a world of what am I allowed to do and what should I do? But rather, what can I do and what do I want to try to do? And so when you see that, I think it inspires you to think differently in that regard, it inspires you to keep going like. I know we do everything like this, but what if we did? Just what if we didn't? Yeah, and that's what I'm always trying to think of for myself as a person. And I mean, in everything what I eat, how I think, how I live, everything I go like, what if I didn't? I always question my programing because I realize that I only know what I know because I was taught it. And I think a lot of the time people think that there is a default way of thinking that, you know, they're like, Well, that's the way it is. It's OK, but is it? Oh, yeah, that's the way it is. But how do you know? Have you ever asked yourself about everything you believe in life? You don't have to like a crisis or existential crisis? And now I'm not asking you to, like, go on mushrooms and like, question your existence, but just ask yourself the whys, small things. Why do you dress the way you do? Why do you eat the way you do? Why do you eat the food you do? I mean, because I always have. But why would why would why? Why do you support the team that you do? The time you just do, because somebody did. But when you question and you ask yourself, what if I did it differently? Nine times out of 10, you find you don't want to, but that one time could be the catalyst of change in your life that you need to just switch things up and create something really amazing. [00:40:26][127.7]

Joanie Wang: [00:40:27] Yeah, that really resonates with me. And it's honestly one of the reasons why I love working on Expensify because I think our CEOs always challenging us. It's like, why do we have to do it this way? Why are we doing it right away? Just because other people are doing it that way doesn't mean we have to. Right, right? And it's this idea of best practices with a capital BP versus just the best practices currently that we write the best way. And internally, we sometimes say when something really sucks, it's our excuse to make it amazing. This DIY series is one example of that. We basically took a bunch of workshops, Tony and I and some of the other senior leaders. This is the format that we learned was like, Look, we want to talk to really cool people with interesting stories and lived experiences and have those be the learning moments of what we're trying to accomplish here. [00:41:07][40.0]

Trevor Noah: [00:41:08] I like that. [00:41:08][0.3]

Puneet Lath: [00:41:09] I kind of feel like that's where your show is trying to do, like tell stories that people learn something along the way, but you can't if you're almost like tricking them into it by making them laugh on [00:41:17][7.9]

Trevor Noah: [00:41:17] why, I think I tricked myself into doing it that way. I tricked myself into living life through comedy and not comedy. Life is just a miserable experience. Everything is painful in life. Just think about it for a moment. Life is a horrible thing to think about. It's every day you have to brush your teeth every single day. What a horrible, miserable [00:41:36][18.3]

Joanie Wang: [00:41:36] life when you have cavities. [00:41:37][0.7]

Trevor Noah: [00:41:38] Yeah, but just the fact that you have to brush your teeth. You have to eat. If you don't eat, you get hunger pangs. Horrible existence. You have to brush your hair. You have to bathe. Otherwise your body rots. You have to look before you cross the road or call smash your body. I mean, like, what a horrible way we live life is. A horrible thing is horrible. So without comedy, I go, like, why would I want to exist in this madness? And so comedy is the thing that helps me process that information and just be like, Yeah, you know what? This whole thing is ludicrous and ridiculous, and it's fun and it's interesting. And so I'm going to try and enjoy that a little bit more. And that's what I'm trying to do on the show is I go like, Amen. America is a place where people use politics as a sport and, you know, they use it to try and destroy each other's lives and people go manic about it. Like, you can also laugh about it. I come from a country where my mom's generation didn't have freedom, so I feel like I can go, like, go very far back. I wasn't even born into a free country, you know, but we learned how to love. It doesn't mean that you're not trying to change. Some things it doesn't mean you're not trying to do things, but man, you can't forget that you're a human being while you're going through this experience. And so that's what laughter always does for me. [00:42:47][69.2]

Joanie Wang: [00:42:47] I've got to enjoy the ride, right? [00:42:48][1.1]

Trevor Noah: [00:42:49] Yeah, it's the only ride you're going to have. [00:42:50][1.4]

Puneet Lath: [00:42:50] Yeah, I feel like that's why people love shows like yours, like satire news, because the news itself is just so devastating. Oh yeah, yeah. And you've got to find a way to find the funny in it. [00:43:00][9.2]

Trevor Noah: [00:43:00] Yes. And they designed it to be devastating. That's the thing, because in America, it's about ratings. So they want to tell you about the thing that's going to devastate your day. Most of the things are not devastating your day. They'll find the thing if they can't, nothing's happening in your neighborhood, they'll find this city. They'll find misstatements, statements on your stage and your country is not. Your country will tell you about another country like, you know, everything's good in America right now. We'll look at what happened in Bangladesh. Now I have to be sad. Most of the time things are going generally well, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make things better. But I cannot live in a constant state of despair. I don't think it's healthy. [00:43:34][34.2]

Puneet Lath: [00:43:35] Feel like when Ebola was happening, that was the thing I was like. There wasn't something else to do. Oh yes, like Ebola, Ebola, and then suddenly, like, no, Ebola. Yes, exactly. [00:43:42][7.5]

Trevor Noah: [00:43:43] Yes. It's like, you know, it's interesting enough to make you scared. So we'll use it. [00:43:47][3.7]

Puneet Lath: [00:43:47] Yeah, yeah. So we talked about leverage. We talked about how fun. So the last life goal is to save the world. And what we mean by save the world is not virtue signaling. It's more of like, let's make a really hard problems and let's throw our weight behind it. Is there anything like that for you? [00:44:03][15.6]

Trevor Noah: [00:44:04] And what isn't like that education is a big one. Just in education hasn't evolved in like 100 years. We still teach kids they're going to go work on a factory, know, assembly line. It's wild to me. It's probably one of the biggest ones, you know, policing. We still think of it as a mechanism to generate income for cities, which is a conflict of interest. And I think that causes a lot of the turmoil that America goes through, because if you have a system that is designed to protect and serve, but then it also has to generate some sort of income, then it no longer is only interested in protecting and serving. And so now you put police in a shitty situation where you like you better bring in this much money and then you also saying to the same cops, but don't stop people really like, What the hell am I supposed to do? And so I think a lot of these systems are the things I try to question in life and education is a big one for me because I think on the ground, the more you can put into that, no one should have to pay a price to be intelligent. Why are we even depriving ourselves of that? Why would anyone want to live in a society where people are up and down it? Nobody wins. And so I always think to myself how much my life is different because my grandmother and grandfather were lucky enough to get a little bit of education that they could use to improve my mom's life. And she got a little bit more education, which she then used to improve my life and I got a little more education. And I use that to improve the rest of my family, my community's life. And so I see the difference that that makes. [00:45:27][82.5]

Joanie Wang: [00:45:28] I think you have a foundation as well, right? And it's dealing with education. [00:45:31][2.7]

Trevor Noah: [00:45:32] Well, yeah, but philanthropy cannot solve the world's issues. Philanthropy is like trying to stop the rain from hitting your house, and all you've got is umbrella. It's nice that you're doing it, but it's not going to work. [00:45:41][9.7]

Joanie Wang: [00:45:42] It's like treating the symptom and not figuring out not [00:45:44][2.0]

Trevor Noah: [00:45:44] even the whole symptom as well. I think of my foundation, you know, like a little scout goes out to investigate and discover things and then bring the information back to the mother ship that can then navigate and make a big change. With my foundation, what we do is we partner up with a few schools. We try and give them the tools and the resources they need so that kids can get to a better place. A lot of times kids are just hungry and nothing to do with their intelligence. This is hungry. Sometimes they just cold. Sometimes they just don't have a computer. And so we try and give them all of those tools so that they can continue teaching these kids. And then what we do is we try and implement new ideas to see what could improve schooling. What happens if you include a therapist in every school? What happens? Notice a big jump on them knowing like, Wow, and you replicate them a few other schools. You see the difference. You say, You know what? Let's tell the government about this, and it's up to them to do something because we don't have the resources to put a service in every school. [00:46:37][52.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:46:38] In your book, you talked about how you used to have this business selling CDs kind of like a little business magnate in your community and your school. But you said that you could have done that if your friend and gift you the CD burner so that you could do it right. You compared it to OK, you can teach a man to fish, but it doesn't help. You don't give them fish, right? Yes. You talk about that idea. [00:46:57][19.3]

Trevor Noah: [00:46:58] Well, I think we've been tricked in society into believing that everybody can do it if they just put them back into it. Everybody come on, just work hard and you can do it. What we don't think about is how many tools and leg ups we give people along the way. So for instance, if a child is given access to a good education and if a child isn't, that's already a tool that we've given them. So you can say to both kids when they finish school now, do your own thing. But what school did they get to finish? What lessons have they learned in life if you come from? A family that's rich, there's a good chance you're going to know how to use money. You're going to understand money. You're going to have access to a world of money that maybe somebody else who's not from that world doesn't. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not begrudging you because you come from that. I just think we shouldn't now make it seem like everyone has equal footing to just do. Knowledge is a powerful thing to just do. And so if I say to you, come on, let's start a company. But you have the knowledge of how to do certain things. You have a better chance of succeeding. And so what I learned in life is we think of giving people the opportunity to do things, but we don't think of giving them the tools in order for them to fully maximize those opportunities. And that's really where success comes from creating a world where people can actually utilize a tool that they've been given to access and opportunity. You see it in the smallest ways and in the biggest ways. People who have access to a loan have a better chance of starting a business. People who have access to a loan that has a favorable interest rates have an even better chance of having a successful business. And those are some of the things that I think people don't seem to realize when they say I started from nothing. Yes, but what was your nothing that you started from a lot of the time? That story is really different, and like I say, I don't begrudge anybody. Everyone starts from the place that they have to start from. But I do think we can do a better job of acknowledging that, hey, we can try and give people a leg up here or leg up there to get them to a certain place. [00:49:03][125.1]

Joanie Wang: [00:49:04] Actually, everything that you've just said just now, it's basically equality versus equity. What you're talking about is this idea of equity recognizing where people started and certain people have opportunities and privileges that other people don't as a result of many different factors. What I'm curious about is, especially in the US, we love this idea that we did it all on our own. It's 100 percent our effort. We've had no help from anyone else. You know, we did it or I did it, I would say. So my question for you is, how do we have this conversation of equity without people who are in power or who have those opportunities feel like that something is being taken away from them when in the US, people refuse to acknowledge that equity exists. [00:49:44][39.8]

Trevor Noah: [00:49:45] The hardest thing in getting over that obstacle is understanding the pride attached to the idea of the individualistic win in America, and it's very much what America is founded on. This one man did it. Mm-Hmm. And that's how America even tells its history stories. You know, that's what happened here is like George Washington did this. He was on that boat. You saw him was like, Who is rowing the boat? That doesn't matter. He was on that boat. He was crossing that river. Abraham Lincoln freed them, who did develop thoughts and ideas with. That's not the point. Freed them and a lot of the time. That's the notion. And I understand why America is a country that I have to create these stories and narratives around heroes, which is a wonderful story to tell because it inspires a nation to become better than it is. What I think you then lose, though, unfortunately, is the story behind the story. I was just intrigued by that when I would watch like, for instance, the Super Bowl, the NBA playoffs or wherever it was, and there would be like the player that they would talk to the player you, you did this, you did this. And I was like, Well, let me know a bunch of other people who passed the ball with Tom Brady. You didn't like what the guy I got to catch the ball that he threw. What happened to that person in that? If you're not careful, you create a world where people literally have tunnel vision for only the most glamorous position, the most powerful position, or just the position that is deemed to be the most important. Yeah, if we can get to a place where we go, Hey, there's nothing wrong with trying to be the hero, but we can also live in a world where we celebrate the team of the heroes. Celebrate Sorkin for being Superman. Congratulations, Superman. But let's be honest, without your parents, you wouldn't have done this. Somebody had to feed that baby so that I could go and lift mountains and save people crashing in helicopters, right? Yeah. So then Superman wasn't self-made. Somebody had to put Superman will ship to send it to Earth to save it from the explosion on Krypton. So Superman is not self-made. And so if we can live in a society where we celebrate all of those nameless, faceless people who are actually part of the team that get the person to that place, then I think we can grow in a more equitable society. Yes, Neil Armstrong is on the Moon, but who? All those people who got him to the Moon? You know, all the engineers, all the people. And I'm not saying you have to take it away and be like, Neil, you didn't do it. No. Fantastic. Still an astronaut. But let's also celebrate the fact that this was a team effort. Those pictures that we take, we should also consider them because it's not that personal loan. They may be the figurehead, but as a society, we're trying to get somewhere. And so when you expand that outward, you come to understand that we have to start acknowledging the fact that we are all dominoes affecting each other at the end of maybe the big domino that gets the biggest shine or the most effect. But we are all the little pieces that are stacking together that create this effect. And so I think the more we celebrate, that's. For maybe the time, kids are really young team, team, team, team team and you said to be a good captain, your team is what you're trying to bring together. I think hopefully then we can live in a world where people understand that, yes, you can say that you are self-made, but really, you are always going to be society major, always going to be community made. And so then you understand that you are only going to be as strong as your society or your community is in trying to get to that made place. [00:53:02][197.0]

Puneet Lath: [00:53:03] So lastly, I suppose one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you specifically, Trevor, is because you have experience living in multiple countries that are grappling with issues of race. And I think you've said in the past that in South Africa, people are a little bit better at talking openly and honestly about race. So why do you think that is? And what can we learn from that? [00:53:21][18.5]

Trevor Noah: [00:53:23] Why do I think that is? I think it's because the racial makeup of South Africa is different. You know, when population is 90 percent black, it was easy for the country to say, Hey, we need to have a conversation about what happened. How did it happen? Why did it happen? America has never been forced to do that. I think it's because throughout history, many Americans have always have the idea that it will come with some sort of racial reckoning. There will be this night when all of a sudden everybody's punished for their sins, when in fact it's really just closure. In order to begin to treat the symptoms or the cause of something, you have to acknowledge what made it that way. So when you go to the doctor, they ask you for your history, your medical history, and the reason they do that is so that they can figure out how best to treat you. They ask you about your grandparents house. Your grandparents have a history of diabetes. Why is that necessary to know? Because it could affect you today? And so in talking about these things, I think America could be in a better place because then people of today can say, Ah, I see why we're here now. Here's a classic example we're in Los Angeles. A lot of people go like, man, the traffic and there is terrible the traffic. A lot of people don't realize that part of the reason traffic in L.A. is so terrible is because of racism. People like, What are you talking about? Well, the way the highways were developed in L.A. weren't designed around the best possible ways to make a highway system. They were designed around which neighborhoods would be least disrupted by the highway. And so when the planners came in and said, We're going to make a highway system, we want to get people from here to here as quickly as possible. They actually found that you want the roads to go to different places and different spaces so that people can get how they need. Just like a spider web, you want to do it as efficiently as possible. But as soon as one of those highways was going through Beverly Hills, people in Beverly Hills were like, No, we don't want a highway here. And so then the highway got moved and then it moved to an area that was predominately black. And then they said, we're building on a highway here, but they didn't give them the option to say no. They said no, and they're like, Well, you don't have an option. And all of a sudden, what happens, then highway splits that community. And now you live on the good side of the highway, the bad side of the highway. Now you live in a place where your neighborhood has lost value because there's a highway on top of it. And so you've lost inherent wealth, and the wealth in Beverly Hills continues to grow, even just understanding that. I'm not saying you build the highway. Nobody here build that highway, but you can at least go like, Man, that what happened? And now we're paying the price for it. Now I sit in traffic for two hours just because someone in Beverly Hills didn't want one lane of highway, two lanes of highway. I now understand. And so I think that's what the difference is, is understanding. There's still a big challenge on the other side of understanding. It doesn't mean you fix it immediately. But understanding the root cause of a problem is how you can then begin to figure out how to fix that problem. The difference I've seen in America versus in South Africa is in America. People do not want to talk about it because they think you're somehow reliving it or rehashing it, or wanting to create a new conflict from it. And I'm like, No, it's not like that. Imagine if you carry that attitude everywhere with you. Imagine if you went to that same doctor and they said your grandfather had a problem with heart disease and you're like, Why are you trying to bring up heart disease, man? Why won't you let this go? Come on, man, it's over now. Diseases done in my family. You just shut up about it. We want to talk about heart disease and be like, OK, and then you die of a heart attack. [00:56:39][195.9]

Puneet Lath: [00:56:39] And we want to have the white grandfather at one hundred. We want to talk about it. [00:56:42][3.6]

Trevor Noah: [00:56:42] So that's pretty much where you end up. [00:56:44][1.7]

Puneet Lath: [00:56:45] It's funny how you mention that Grace's history affects all of us now. For example, in L.A., it reminds me of how Ruth Bader Ginsburg, when she was trying to get people to care about sexism, she showed that it affects men. Yes, and that's how she got people to care. Right? Affects all of us. We just exactly realize it. Exactly. Thanks so much for taking the time. We really enjoyed talking to you today, Trevor. [00:57:05][20.1]

Trevor Noah: [00:57:05] Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This was a really, really wonderful conversation. And so maybe my favorite big ass table that I've sat at so long. Oh yeah, long table. That's true. [00:57:16][11.0]

Puneet Lath: [00:57:17] That is very true. My favorite long arms table. Thank you. [00:57:20][2.9]

Joanie Wang: [00:57:20] It's a pleasure. Thank you. [00:57:21][1.0]

Monte Barnard: [00:57:22] Thanks for joining us on Live Rich. Have fun! Save the world for our first ever long ass table. Talk with Joanie Wang, Puneet Laugh and Trevor Noah. I'm your host, Monty Bernard. If you're an individual or small business owner who's looking for a thoughtful way to start a. Similar conversation at your own organization, head to Expensify dot com slash latte to watch the video and access the discussion questions. [00:57:22][0.0]

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